User talk:Arrol

Absolute Damage numbers change.

Hello! Welcome to the wiki.

In case you haven't noticed, the tooltips for skills that contain flat damage numbers like Agni Pentacle have their numbers change if you switch weapons. Rather than have people fighting over numbers, I would like to people to start using Template:AbsoluteDamage that does the math for you. You can see an example when I used it for the Sticky Ball skill.

It can be made like so when editing a page:

{{AbsoluteDamage|Tooltip=15610|IndependantAttack=1173}}

Damage Ratio:

Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips

13.31

max-width:200px 100

{{AbsoluteDamage|15610|1173}}

Damage Ratio:

Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips

13.31

max-width:200px 100

Thank you for your contribution, hope to see you again in the edits soon.

-- Everspace (talk) 02:24, 24 May 2015 (PDT)

Be smart.

If you're going to update a page and change all the names of stuff, that's great. But don't do that and then leave a bunch of blank links. Re do the pages or have redirects. Copain (talk) 15:40, 8 July 2015 (PDT)

My bad. Arrol (talk) 17:06, 9 July 2015 (PDT)

Do not blank pages when deleting

Tis silly since the history is still there. Just add the delete template and be done with it. -- Everspace (talk) 05:19, 18 August 2015 (PDT)

My apologies.Arrol (talk) 12:08, 18 August 2015 (PDT)

Please provide a reason for an edit.

It makes it easier for me (or others) to understand what you've done. If it's the same edit over and over again (adding iconlink template), most browsers are good about autocompleting the box for you if you start typing it out again.

Thanks, -- Everspace (talk) 03:23, 21 August 2015 (PDT)

Hey Arrol - just wanted to make sure you saw my post inviting you to the editors Discord. If you don't want to join that's totally fine, just wanted to make sure you saw it. Invite link is discord.gg/rfaz75c

Queerchemist (talk)

ah i see it. sorry, I will have to pass on this one. I'll take contact here.

Arrol (talk)

Hey Arrol. I forgot to tell you this earlier, but you may encounter some skills that contain an abnormal skill growth. When this occurs, you may have to enter the values for that particular skill option manually.

To do this, I recommend referencing the page  Infernal Road. Here's a possible workaround.

• Instantiate another array under the one named "maxrow". Name it whatever you want, and match the values with the skill lv in maxrow.
• Enter and list in the intended values for that skill option, separated by commas.
• Then reference that array via

  {{#arrayindex:arrayName| {{#expr: {{#var:i}}-1 }} }}

  to display the skill option.

Here's another interesting tip. If you somehow come across values you are unsure of/missing, ie Awakening skills etc. You can always use the Korean API to solve this issue. In this case, you can use the page  Astral Storm for reference.
When comparing the Astral Storm values in the DFOG version to the Korean version, you'll notice that if you divide the Korean version's values by the DFOG Astral Storm values, you'll get a damage difference ratio of roughly 1.1785. This means each of the skill options have an increase of 17.85%.

You can surround the Calc template or array reference with the following while using the Korean API's data and use the damage difference ratio to get all the values of the current DFOG version.:

{{#expr: CalcTemplate/ArrayReference / X round 0}}

'X' being the damage difference ratio between the Korean version and the DFOG version.

When a later balance patch occurs, you can always remove the surrounding #expr template.

Altair (talk)

Hey Arrol. I've been using the JobDesc5 template to update some of the class pages, and I've been wondering what constitutes as a "Positive Status Effect". Could you please explain this to me?

Altair (talk)

I had originally added that slot for any positive status effects as in actual effects like Haste, Bless or Super Armor like the powerups you get in the dungeons but then I realized that really very little classes offers those certain side effects. (Female Mage's Phase Shift gives Bless or Haste) so I noticed there was little use for that part.

It could be removed or maybe amended for actual buff effects like skill attack or Elemental attack or something. Depending on what any of you all think.

Arrol (talk)

Hey Arrol,

Since I frequently see your username on the recent changes page, I wanted to make you aware that I've created a Discord server for editors. You are welcome to join at:

discord.gg/rfaz75c

Best regards,

Queerchemist (talk)

Hey Arrol, I thought you might be interested in this. Some time ago you asked where I got some of my skill information; most of which, I find from in-game. However, a few weeks ago, someone referred me to this (Sorry, this page doesn't allow me to post links outside the wiki). It's a link to the KDnF API docs, which contains information to a variety of miscellaneous information. The last 2 documents (21 and 22) contain information pertaining to skill growth that are currently available on the KDnF server. I've already checked through a few of the classes, and apparently only a few of the classes on the DFOG version are up to date with the KDnF version. These classes include the Secret Agent, Male Crusader, Female Mechanic, and Dragon Knight. I haven't checked through all of them, but there may be more. However, despite there being somewhat of a difference between the two versions (due to missing balance patches), most passives and buffs are the same between both versions. For example, I've been using this link to find info pertaining to certain skills like Sign of Protection or Impact Smash. I hope that you find this somewhat useful.

Altair (talk)

THank you very much.

Ok, all of this is new. How do I do all of this API stuff?

Ok, I'm startin to learn.

Arrol (talk)

Here, I made a guide for the API on the wiki. I hope this helps.

The API also has documents containing information about Items/Item Sets. Unfortunately, I haven't explored these features in much detail.

Additionally, I made some slight changes to the Great Metastasis Skill Table format. I replaced the equations with Template:Calc and Template:Calc2. Hopefully, this makes it somewhat easier and faster to update pages.

Altair (talk)

On my Elementalist, the MP cost for Magic Missile lvl 1 shows 8 (in white text) but on my Battle Mage it shows as 7 (in blue text). Is there a reason for this difference? When updating Skill Growth tables, which one should I use?

Kurisu (talk)

Sorry if I am intruding in this conversation, but I can answer this for you.

Blue text (for Cooldown or MP Consumption) means that there is a reduction attribute effect affecting that certain stat, in this case your Mana costs. White text means that it is the base value. Red text means that the value has been increased.

I'm assuming you're using a Spear. Spears have the following common attributes:

• Physical Skill MP Cost +5%
• Physical Skill Cooldown Time +5%
• Magical Skill MP Cost -5%
• Magical Skill Cooldown Time -5%
• Physical Critical Rate +2%

So for Magic Missile in particular, because it is a magic skill, it's MP cost and cooldown are lowered by 5%. To find the base value either equip a Pole or just divide the blue number by 0.95.

Usually we'd want to use the white text for base values since weapons adjust the stats of skills, but this can be easily adjusted with a bit of mathematics.

Altair (talk)

Oh, I see now. I was going crazy last night trying to find the reason for the discrepancy and I can't believe I forgot about weapons affecting the stats.

So I need to either equip a Pole or divide the blue number by 0.95, but what about just un-equipping the Spear altogether? I get 8 MP without any weapon, but if I divide 7 MP by 0.95 I get 7.368 ...

Kurisu (talk)

That doesn't necessarily work for all cases. Most classes have a default base weapon. I believe Mage's default weapon is a Rod.

Here's the Rod's attributes:

• Physical Skill MP Cost -5%
• Physical Skill Cooldown Time -5%
• Hit Rate -1%
• Casting Speed +5%

If you're updating skills that deal magic damage then you should be fine. However, if you're updating physical skills you'll need to do some math.

That being said we have been trying to standardize the use of a new table format. Here's a link to it if you're interested. The new format uses a simulated loop to iterate through the table rows given mathematical equations for each skill option. To be simply put, you'll only need to enter in the values once in an equation and the table will automatically calculate the rest for you.

Altair (talk)

Oh, ok. I'll make sure to be aware of that when updating physical skills.

And OMG, that new table format's a godsend. I've been updating tables manually. Thanks to whoever came up with that.

Kurisu (talk)

To increase the table length (or add more rows), just add more numbers within the brackets of:

{{#arraydefine:maxrow|1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10}}

You can also use this to skip to certain rows if you deem it necessary.

Feel free to change the Table Headers as you see fit.

Most of the values just need to be plugged in. To read more about that, there should be a link under the first table or just press here.

Altair (talk)

When I'm in the pvp channel (just in the channel, not in any room) the tooltip for Sky Assault shows 168% + 410 for Physical Atk. and my independent attack shows 1296. So the damage ratio = 163/1234 = 0.316

But when I go inside a room, the tooltip shows 168% + 433 and Independent attack shows 1141; 433/1141 = 0.379

Why am I getting two different numbers here? Which one should I use?

Kurisu (talk)

PvP Channel as in the Practice Arena or Arena? Either way, PvP has different skill growths compared to regular PvE content. PvP also has a built-in balance system that changes your stats to make it more fair against lesser geared players. This may explain why your Independent Attack is somewhat different.

In addition, for some reason, for PvP skill growths only, there isn't a consistent growth scalar multiplier for Independent Attack based skills. So if you're trying to collect PvP data in the PvP channel for Fixed class, don't. Also, remember, if you're attempting to gather PvE data from the PvP channel, make sure to switch Skill Info type with the F7 key.

At this point, it may be less strenuous to just use data from the regular channels/ in town.

Altair (talk)

So if you're trying to collect PvP data in the PvP channel for Fixed class, don't.

Wait, are you saying I shouldn't collect PVP data for skills that deal fixed damage, like Sky Assault? What about for skills that deal percent damage?

Kurisu (talk)

It's a discussion we had on the Wiki a long time ago. We discovered that the game has some kind of algorithm that changes the scalar multiplier values for fixed damage PvP skill growths in PvP Arena.

For example:  Holy Flash Lv41 Arena values:

• Test 1:
  • IndependentAttack = 1822
  • Fixed Damage= 2840
  • Scalar multiplier =
    Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips
    1.56
    max-width:200px 100
• Test 2:
  • IndependentAttack = 2004
  • Fixed Damage= 3215
  • Scalar multiplier =
    Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips
    1.6
    max-width:200px 100
• Test 3:
  • IndependentAttack = 3067
  • Fixed Damage= 5405
  • Scalar multiplier =
    Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips
    1.76
    max-width:200px 100
• Test 4:
  • IndependentAttack = 3133
  • Fixed Damage= 5541
  • Scalar multiplier =
    Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips
    1.77
    max-width:200px 100

As you can see the scalar multiplier is inconsistent, when it supposed to be the same for all 4 tests. Because of this reason, we could not find a consensus to agree upon on which was the correct value, so we decided to omit PvP Fixed Damage data entirely until we found out what this algorithm was. Sadly, we still have not found the solution... Percent skill values on the other hand, don't have this issue.

Altair (talk)

Oh, I understand now. Thanks for the explanation.

Kurisu (talk)

Time to bring this thread back to life again. After 2 years, I found about arrays extension. I'm pretty sure we can sort ClassSkills by "required level" now.

The algorithm I used is specified in my test page, as well as the demo result. User:Dfoplayer/TestSemantics

Dfoplayer (talk)

Awww yea. The new ClassSkills template now sorts by level. However, some of the male and female skills fail, such as Gun Guard Upgrade, as they have two values in required level. I think the query will place it on the top or bottom of the list. Fortunately, most of the skills are sorted correctly, which is good enough.

Example: User:Dfoplayer/TestClassSkills2

Dfoplayer (talk)

A fantastic job

Arrol (talk)

Please do not revert edits or nominate pages for deletion without first looking into why the page or edit was made in the first place.

The redirect on "Apocalypse (Male)" is there specifically because there are several pages on the wiki that link to it, so it makes more sense to redirect than to manually change every single link.

If you had just asked why I created the redirect in the first place, there would be no issue; now I'm hesitant to remove your deletion tag without the permission of an administrator, and all of those links to "Apocalypse (Male)" are broken again.

Please communicate with other users before making changes like this.

Queerchemist (talk)

i can just remove the tag. Sorry again for all that.

Arrol (talk)

No worries, like I said just try to communicate more. Thanks.

Queerchemist (talk)