View source for User talk:Gardios

Template:Equipment list

I really like your Template:Equipment list since you can list out all equipment with certain attributes, like skills. Is it possible that in the skill page, we could create a url, with the end as a parameter so that we can generate a page with just the equipment related to the skill. Otherwise, we will need a page for every skill listed and have the template generate the list, like Skills that do not use Template:SkillPage. --Dfoplayer (talk) 21:15, 7 June 2015 (PDT)

If I'm understanding correctly... I don't think that's possible? MediaWiki doesn't support user parameters in the URL for pages as far as I know. You can create a link to the semantic search result by setting limit to 0:

List of equipment that satisfy the search criteria.

...but as you can see, it kinda bugs out due to the way the template retrieves the skill bonus data. Why not just have the list on the page itself?

That said, it'll probably be a while until it's actually usable, anyway. It requires us to make a new page for every weapon after all, and before people do that I'd really like to get the other templates done and discuss them with the community... which I don't really know how to do yet. I guess a thread on DFONexus could work since I'm a member there anyway? Gardios (talk) 16:09, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

You can. The first one to start templating is Everspace and once a template is used across the whole wiki, Everspace wants to make sure that "More care and effort should be made to editing" templates. Everspace is both on Reddit and DFONexus. Another Template user is Dfmchfhf. I do not know if Dfm is on DFONexus or Reddit. --Dfoplayer (talk) 16:45, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

How?

Also, I'll be honest I don't understand why you brought those users up and what that has to do with the previous conversation, lol. Gardios (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

I was trying to point out that those two have more mediawiki experience than most but seems like I wasn't clear. lol. Anyways, i suppose its fine if you use DFONexus for template ideas, just make sure not many editors change it. I feel like Everspace has that idea of "Don't change anything since this is used on over 100 pages" and I was trying to fix SkillPage. --Dfoplayer (talk) 17:09, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

Oh, I see haha. Well, I wasn't going to touch any existing templates anyway because yeah, I don't want to fuck them up. When I was talking about discussing templates, I just meant the ones I was working on (which are mainly SMW ones). I was going to talk to Everspace about SkillPage eventually regarding the potential use of Equipment list on SkillPage, but like I said, it's not ready anytime soon anyway so no need to hurry. Gardios (talk) 17:17, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

Question: Image Uploads

Hi. Sorry for the noob question, but I was wondering if you could tell me how to get the pictures people upload for the skill icons. Do you just screenshot your game and crop it out, or is there a method people use to access the game files directly and get them? [If you couldn't tell] I'm new to this and I just found your page when looking at the recently uploaded images and thought it'd be a good place to ask. SirKerfluffles

Welcome to the DFO world wiki. We usually just take the old skill icons and save it to our computer. We then use an image editor, like Microsoft paint or Paint.net and save the icon as a png and re upload with the correct name. A good guide is this one. If we do not have an old image, then you are correct, we can either take a screenshot or get it from the game files. I believe most of us prefer game files since it is better quality. However there a couple thousand images and its pretty tough to go through. I would send a message to AradEditGuy since he has been uploading equipment icons.--Dfoplayer (talk) 11:03, 8 June 2015 (PDT)

So I've been working on using Template:Set information, and has been adding the skill alteration fields, but I noticed that the current search query does not pick up skill alterations from Set information pages, so most relevant OV set pieces won't really show up when the appropriate skill alteration is set, so the skill alteration fields just feel kinda useless right now on the Set information pages.

I understand that the current search query only looks at Equipment infobox pages, but is there some way in the future where we can have the Set information skill alterations be picked up by a search, or would you suggest we put enter skill alteration on each individual OV set pieces as well? So that say if I search for Gunner(M), Moving Shot, the Precise Fire pieces will show up, etc?

JunEcho (talk)

No, don't put any set information on the item pages. I was originally going to make a separate query for sets, but I can include sets in the equipment query as well without having to change anything about the item/set pages.

Gardios (talk)

Hi Gardios. Sorry to bother you, but there is a slight problem with Template:Equipment list. As seen in the List of cloth tops page, due to there being 170+ Chronicle Cloth Tops, but Equipment list only displaying 150 results, there seem to be some kind of closing brace issue which causes the Chronicle section to kind of "swallowed" the Legendary and Epic sections. Is there a way for you to fix this? I have tried to default hide the Chronicle section, but that ended up hiding the Legendary and Epic sections due to them being considered as part of the Chronicle section. Please advise. Thanks!

JunEcho (talk)

I've increased the number of displayed items to 250. I know that it's just a bandaid solution, but I haven't figured out yet how to make the template not break when there are more items...

Gardios (talk)

Hope 250 lasts for a while then. Thanks!

JunEcho (talk)

Hey Gardios. I've noticed an oddity with the Feat Quest Marionette. It has two prerequisites because there are two quests with the same name, but the Viper's Nest one is the correct one. Is there a way to resolve this or should I add a suffix to the quest name to distinguish them?

Altair (talk)

Since they're taking place in different dungeons, you can also add a dungeon parameter. Using {{Quest list|name=A Word from the Foundation of the Nightmare|dungeon=Viper's Nest}} should limit it to the correct quest.

Gardios (talk)

For Template:EpicQuest2, how do I incorporate RewardItem into rewards which are not all of the items? Currently, as seen in Collecting Fused Cubes, it is listed under RewardOther and shows them under "Select One:". If I put them in RewardItem separated by semi-colons, it would only show each item, but you wouldn't know if you get all of them or just get to pick one. What should we do here? It'd be annoying to have to add a note in RewardOther or something :/ but if you think that's the best way, then I can go ahead and do that.

JunEcho (talk)

Also, can we incorporate some sort of ObjectiveMonster field on EpicQuests2 so we can incorporate Quest list into Monster pages with a monster objective as well? That'd be amazing~ :D

JunEcho (talk)

Also, we might need to consider to put a QuestType field in EpicQuests2 which defaults to Epic but can be set to Limited, Side, etc. This will allow for more functionalities with filtering, and even displaying the quest type icon in front of the quest name :D

Also so that when we display quests on say Siran, it's not just gonna be a whole chunk of quests, but actually filtered by dungeons and even quest type.

JunEcho (talk)

I've added Type and RewardItemChoice as new parameters. First is for the quest type (duh), seconds will display that you may pick one of the items in that list. If Type is set, the quest will display a quest type image in front of it (though most haven't been uploaded yet?). Full list of types is here, that should be everything. Type doesn't have a default value since I feel too many quests will display an improper type for now.

Quest list now also allows you to filter by quest type.

I don't really see the point for ObjectiveMonster? With items, you can look up their purpose if you have it and go "oh, okay, maybe I should keep those Cloth Scraps then," but that doesn't really work for monsters. You never look up a monster just to see what quests are associated to it.

Gardios (talk)

I'll upload the Quest Type images once I find them. Thanks for adding those 2 fields, they will definitely be useful. And I guess ObjectiveMonster doesn't matter too much then, no problem.

JunEcho (talk)

For Template:EpicQuest2, what do I do for quests which gives different item/item choice rewards depending on the character's class? Quests such as One Who Seals the Nightmare and Spirit King Zeluth's Interference currently has placeholder rewards such as Beginning of Your Adventure: (Player's Class Basic Weapon) and Vetala's: (Player's Class Basic Weapon), but once we add in those items, we obviously need to somehow link the item and quest pages together. Aside from just using RewardOther on the quest side and directly using Quest list|name on the item side, is there someway you can update EpicQuest2 to make it work with this?

Thanks so much. Sorry for always bothering you on templates XD but they are definitely drastically improving the quality of this wiki.

JunEcho (talk)

Hi Gardios, sorry to always request things from you, but you're the only one I can go to for these :X Is it possible to add a monster name alias parameter to Spawns just as Monster link does? In this case, I am using it for Keraha of the Blizzard in Floating Castle. Currently, Keraha of the Blizzard redirects to Ice-Locking Keraha's page because it has been deemed that they are completely the same mob aside from their appearances (as in, I did not deem this; the redirect already existed before). If you think adding such a parameter to Spawns is unnecessary then I can easily just have Keraha of the Blizzard as its own page. Let me know what to do. Thanks!

JunEcho (talk)

Just edit the Keraha of the Blizzard page and replace the redirect with new content.

http://wiki.dfo-world.com/index.php?title=Keraha_of_the_Blizzard&redirect=no

That said, I can probably add that anyway.

Gardios (talk)

So I've been using Quest list on dungeon pages with the dungeon filter, and found that when the amount of results are slightly larger, like in Old Streets or Chessboard of Despair, the displayed Quest list order becomes incorrect. Is there anyway we can fix this, so that it will display the Quests according to the order in which they appear on the Quest pages, such as Meltdown (Epic Quests)? Or would we need some new field or something to determine the sort order?

JunEcho (talk)

There's currently no order, aside from the level requirement. A sort order can be done without a manual field by simply giving each quest on the page an increasing number, i.e. Meltdown_(Epic_Quests)#Faris.27s_Letter_of_Recommendation would get 0, Meltdown_(Epic_Quests)#To_Underfoot 1 and so on. The only problem with this is that if there are multiple quests for a dungeon on multiple pages, the same level requirement (which would be most quests of that sort), and the same quest type, they may be mixed-up when listed. But since that's such a fringe case, it might not happen at all.

If that's fine with you I can do that.

Gardios (talk)

As in you are adding a number in front of the Quest name in the Name field? Or what, I don't quite understand :X I wouldn't really be for changing the name anymore than I'm already doing with Supporting the Squad though.

Is there anyway we can use its section number on the quest page for some sort of interaction? Like for Faris's Letter of Recommendation, it is currently section 2.1 in the Table of Contents. Is there anyway we can use those numbers at all? If we can that'd be great. :X

Also for the fringe case, if it ends up being that case, I would just use an additional Quest list on whatever page it's displaying with different Type filters set in, for example. I think it's not a problem.

JunEcho (talk)

Speaking of Supporting the Squad, the name inside the EpicQuest2 template should be "Supporting the Squad" instead of "Supporting the Squad (Dungeon)", since the former is what is used in the game.

Back to the ordering question, Quest list orders them now like I previously said. Just to clarify, the number that is used to sort doesn't appear on the actual page, it's used internally only. Every time you use EpicQuest2 on a page, a hidden counter is increased by 1 and that number is assigned to the quest to be used for the sorting in Quest list.

Gardios (talk)

Okay, this is definitely a very useful change. Thanks for this.

And the reason why I changed name of Supporting the Squad to with (Dungeon) is because that's the section, and it basically breaks the link by not being able to jump directly to the section. And also it would be pretty confusing for people to see just 3 "Supporting the Squad"s on Bai Ming's page. But if you feel that all 3 should be named "Supporting the Squad," then I don't mind, but please be sure to fix how Quest list jumps to the quest page. Which I don't know how to fix because right now it jumps to that quest page with the name as the section. Unless you're somehow saving the section name to some hidden variable I don't know about. But then again I'm not quite sure how Quest list goes directly to the quest section to begin with XD

But yeah, just make sure you fix that if we're gonna be using the same name. Because I have used the same name before, then it'd just go to the Quest page when the Quest list link is clicked on, and the # section jump would fail because the section name is different from the quest name.

JunEcho (talk)

Quests already link to the correct quest, regardless of the name. I've fixed it with the last update or the one before that.

Gardios (talk)

Sorry to always bother you, but would it be okay to have Template:Item and Template:Contains etc display the item link with the rarity color and bold, similar to how Template:Monster link works? I think it would make looking at the big lists of item slightly easier to distinguish when you can clearly see their rarity right away. But if you're against that then it's fine I guess :X

Also, I've noticed that for Monster link, while Named mobs are automatically colored green, APCs are not automatically colored grey without the class parameter set to apc. Is this intended? I mean, I guess I don't mind having class=apc every time I use Monster link on an APC, but it'd be nice for it to do it automatically :X

But once again, these kind of requests are just aesthetic. If you're busy with things, just put this in your backlog or something. No rush at all. Just a friendly request~

JunEcho (talk)

...? Monster link isn't supposed to (and doesn't) color anything automatically. Spawns colors named/APCs automatically, and it does indeed work for APCs.

Automatically coloring Item based on rarity isn't a good idea imo since color+bold font ruins legibility when you use it in text paragraphs. That said, you can have items be colored now if you set the new rarity parameter, i.e. {{Item|White Cube Fragment|rarity=y}} will look like this:  White Cube Fragment

Contains now uses the item rarity as text color.

Gardios (talk)

Cool, thanks for adding this optional parameter for Item link usage. imo it'd look better with the color (not sure about boldness though honestly :X) if we're gonna be using Item in the cases that we are using it anyways. But I guess with the rarity parameter we can decide to use it or not, which gives more flexibility and is a great thing.

And okay, if the intended default behavior of Monster link is uncolored, then no problem, we'll just use the class parameter when we want it to be colored.

Optional parameters are great~

JunEcho (talk)

Hi, is it possible to integrate IconLink into the Skill Names for the skill bonus field? It would make the skills more easily recognized.

Also, would skill pages eventually be able to use some sort of list filter to show all equipment which increases the level of said skills? Because I've gotten a request for that to be done. I think we're headed towards that directly anyways.

Thanks!

JunEcho (talk)

Not right now. As outlined here, IconLink is a pretty terrible template to be used en masse with skills. I'm waiting for someone who's familiar with the skill page template to make a template "Skill" that works like "Item"... but by the looks of it that someone might end up being me and I kinda have a lot on my plate right now with items alone, so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

As for equipment tables on skill pages, that can technically already be done—one of the examples on the Equipment list template is pretty much that. I've already told Everspace of it, but no reply. I'm not gonna touch the skill page template myself though, at least not until items are done.

Gardios (talk)

Yeah, this is mostly an aesthetic issue, so no hurry. Would love for skills, and eventually maybe NPCs (perhaps NPCs is easier?) to be able to have their own nice Icon Link template like we currently have with the Item template, and to an extent the Quest list template with the name filter (which I still haven't ran into non-unique Quest names yet? Aside from Supporting the Squad, which I put parentheses afterwards of the dungeon version it's dealing with anyway).

JunEcho (talk)

Hi, is it possible to add a filter to Quest list for name so that a Quest can be easily linked using the Quest Name and will display the Quest Type in front if type is specified? Basically, it's like a Quest version of Monster link. So if you can do that, or make a new template called Quest link or something, that'd be nice~

Thanks for your works again!

JunEcho (talk)

I've added a name filter. However, since name isn't a unique value (unlike PAGENAME for items), you might get more than one result. That might now be a problem right now, but may be in the future, so I would try to avoid using it.

Gardios (talk)

Thanks for the addition. I'm not going to be using this in too many places, just in certain pages like Disassembler which wasn't linking the Quest page correctly to begin with. But I'll keep that in mind.

JunEcho (talk)

Hey Gardios. This maybe a stretch, but I wonder if it would be possible to add extra stat information such as their Hit Points (base), Damage Reduction, Defense, Piercing Reduction and Elemental Resistances to the monster pages. I'm going to contact Neople and ask if it is possible for them disclose that information to us since it is extremely difficult to ascertain that information in-game. I feel that this extra information will greatly benefit players' knowledge and understanding of monster strengths and weaknesses.

EDIT: Okay probably not Hit Points since they change depending on dungeon, difficulty, and level.

Altair (talk)

If you can actually get the info from Neople, sure. I highly doubt they'll disclose that though.

Gardios (talk)

For the "weapon type" for the Dual Blade and Chakra Weapon epic pages, the text is in red because they aren't connected to the Twin Swords and Chakra weapon pages. Could you somehow make it so they redirect you to them when you click on it? I don't know how to code that part.

Kalkervic (talk)

I've taken care of it!

Gardios (talk)

For the lines 'poison dmg', 'bleeding dmg', etc., I found out that nothing will show up unless you change the 'dmg' to 'damage'. Just thought I should let you know.

Kalkervic (talk)

Gardios (talk)

The Equipment Template doesn't seem to be recognizing 'Magic Stone' as a equipment slot (as seen on Pit's Core).

It's been fixed.

Gardios (talk)

Hey Gardios, not sure if I'm goofing up again but I don't think "| all elemental resist" is working properly. You can see an example of this in: Ygdram - Origin of Nature

EDIT: Scratch that, I sort of goofed, should be "| all elemental resistances"

My apologies, seems like I've got it wrong on the template page.

Gardios (talk)

Is there any way to link words in item descriptions at all? Because I think right now it will wreck the description.

JunEcho (talk)

It works now!

Gardios (talk)

Nice, that was quick XD

JunEcho (talk)

I dunno if I'm doing something wrong or what, but when I link things in the description, it appends a "Has effect description:" in front of it, like so: Silver Dragon Qualification. Can you see what I need to do or fix it so it doesn't do that? Thanks.

JunEcho (talk)

Works now. Forgot to apply the change to Item infobox as well.

Gardios (talk)

Cool, I see it works now, thanks a lot :D

JunEcho (talk)

Is there any way to filter Recipe list by materials, like how Shop list can filter by currency?

Also, when exactly should I use ownable=n? Is that some sort functionality to be used with Roger Levin? Right now I am just using Shop list for Roger's Craft list, because it pretty much works like a shop.

JunEcho (talk)

I've added a filter parameter

{{Recipe list
| material = Requiem Scythe
}}

Icon	Name	Recipe	Profession/Craft	Level	Materials
	Liberation Scythe (1)	Recipe: Liberation Scythe	—	—	Appeasing Stone (15)  Spiritual Residue (75)  Jun's Blacksmith Ticket (1)  High Grade Elemental Crystal (250)  Clear Cube Fragment (10,000)  Requiem Scythe (1)
	Liberation Scythe (1)	Recipe: Tradeable Liberation Scythe	—	—	Requiem Scythe (1)  Appeasing Stone (18)  High Grade Elemental Crystal (250)  Clear Cube Fragment (3,000)
	Liberation Scythe (1)	Recipe: Untradeable Liberation Scythe	—	—	Requiem Scythe (1)  Appeasing Stone (40)  High Grade Elemental Crystal (250)  Clear Cube Fragment (3,000)

ownable determines whether your character can learn the recipe, as is the case with most alchemy/enchanter/puppeteer recipes. While you could technically already apply the templates to Roger and Melvin, they weren't made for NPCs yet so keep them as a Shop for now.

Gardios (talk)

Ok, thanks for adding the filter!

JunEcho (talk)

Oh, before you add the list to pages, it should probably only be used for specific materials. Clear Cube Frags and Low/High Ele Crystals are pretty much used in every (equipment) recipe, so it shouldn't be on those pages since the page will get unnecessary long. Should be fine on most other item pages though.

Gardios (talk)

Okay I'll take note of that :X

JunEcho (talk)

Okay I'm making use of the ownable filter now. Very useful :)

JunEcho (talk)

Is there anyway we can order the dungeons by level? Since the Dungeon pages currently uses Infobox_Dungeon, can we order the Appearances list by the MinLevel field?

JunEcho (talk)

It should be possible. Unlike skills, there is no need to filter anything. That's what bugging me on skill sort by level required. We need to display active skils but do not display awakening/2nd awakening.

I'll look into Template:Appears in.

It is. I'll take care of it later Dfoplayer.

Gardios (talk)

Dungeons are now sorted by minimum level. Might take a while to update on the monster pages (unless you refresh manually) though.

Gardios (talk)

Cool, thanks for your work again!

JunEcho (talk)

Hello!

I want to thank you for all the work you're doing with the semantic wiki stuff and introducing it to the wiki. I think it is a great addition and will benefit immensely when we go to cross-reference stuff.

HOWEVER

I have some concerns about your current approach.

Currently you are specifying a lot of stuff over and over again, and it makes reading what you've done very hard since it's very dense. In addition it's nigh impossible for someone to edit something without using an external editor, or to make contributions.

Compare how User:Everspace/SemanticTomfoolery/Equipment_Infobox has been set up with how your Template:Equipment_infobox has been set up. It's a lot shorter, more concise, and easier to understand (and potentially doesn't need to be changed when other stuff changes).

I would ask you to take a look to using the various plugins that we have acquired for arrays, looping, and CSS, and move away from the base wiki table syntax into HTML table stuff. If you would like assistance, I would be happy to help.

I'm actually already in the process of changing that using a fairly similar approach to yours. As for HTML tables, I can do that, I have to change quite a few pages related to inline queries anyway. Since we have a CSS extension though switching over to definition lists with wiki formatting for the infobox templates should be much simpler.

Gardios (talk)

Just to follow up on this, after cleaning up the templates I've refrained from moving over to HTML syntax for tables since it wouldn't have helped making the templates easier to read. I did however add more comments which should help.

Gardios (talk)

Hello,

I would suggest rather than having the chance to royally bjork up a page, consider making experiment pages like I have at User:Everspace/SemanticTomfoolery

This includes: http://wiki.dfo-world.com/view/Nilvas_Gracia#drop0, among all the other random pages you've "laid claim to". This methodology doesn't make any sense for a shared resource like a wiki where everyone can edit almost anything.

Thanks.

I've made the test pages on the actual wiki specifically because interaction is limited with pages in namespaces. User:Gardios/Test_Scythe for example should list User:Gardios/Test_Monster as a drop, but it doesn't. That's why I've "claimed" pages that didn't exist before. I did the shop test on Simona because what the hell, it already has the correct information anyway and I didn't suspect the page to break like *that*, but turns out I was mistaken.

Gardios (talk)

The ask query for that exact item works like a charm, I imagine the template isn't working as intended.

Ah, you're right, {{PAGENAME}} doesn't include the namespace...

Gardios (talk)