Proposal: More categories

So I've generally put this type of thing on the Metastasis talk page, but this seems more appropriate and I'm feeling like the same people will end up seeing it anyways so here goes.

1. In regards to how "Notes" feels kinda too general, I recently edited Seismic Punch and thought of how to better separate the skill info. Taking the skill's game description from the "Basic Description" tab, we can separate the it into the 3 sections roughly like Description, Additional Inputs, Additional Mechanics, like I've done here. It's not very apparent here, but this would be particularly useful for Awakening skills that tend to that that stuff that goes "At level 3, skill does this...At 6, more stuff...At 9...becomes more OP". Then for Notes, that section can be dedicated to other usage notes that aren't really apparent, stuff that only happens in special cases, etc.
2. Now that the game separates buffs from other skills, I feel like the Type3 should be changed to if the skill is a buff or not. Toggleable seems like something that should be put in the attributes section, and there's so few of them anyway it should be pretty easy to change.
3. On a related note (though it won't affect the skill template), in regards to the Cast Time attribute, I'm finding that it's not really that useful to include in the Attributes section unless the skill is a buff. Pretty much everything that isn't a buff seems to be considered "Instant Cast", which really isn't very accurate because even if the move has a considerable start up animation the game still says it's "Instant Cast". The game is pretty much saying "This move starts the instant you press the skill key or command", but that's true about all the skills. It isn't the same as "This skill's first active frame is on X", which is really what be useful info.

SirKerfluffles (talk)

I like the way it is currently handled. Description just describes the skill without going too in depth in the mechanics of the skill. Attributes are numerical constants of the skill like cooldowns and cube costs. Notes is for any additional information that could affect skill usage like iframe availability, additional inputs, or conditions for use. If you add additional categories like that it will make other skills that don't have anything to put there seem less complete, while if a skill has fewer lines of notes it's not really a big deal. Additionally some skills have inputs in their in game description while others do not. Blood Sword's in-game description tells you that it is possible to stab in place by holding back but Thrust does not say anything about reducing the distance by holding back. So do these two skills have differing pages in this regard even though their additional inputs are the same but thrust's is not apparent?

Having toggleable as a type allows for categorization. Maybe a new line called Buff with yes or no or blank=no as values would be worthwhile so they can be categorized automatically. Speaking of that maybe changing type3 to toggleable in the same way would be a good idea.

I think the cast time deal is in regards to Indomitable Spirit. I don't use the skill myself but maybe someone can tell if there is an instant cast skill that is affected by indomitable spirit. There are also plenty of attack skills that have actual cast times. Many mage skills have cast times for example. Photon Bomb and Napalm have cast times. Nearly all Dark Templar skills have cast times. I think for the sake of consistency it would be better to include cast time even if it is simply instant cast. Providing as much information as possible is a wiki's purpose as well.

Lokd (talk)

Can a skill be BOTH togglable and a buff at the same time? Then yes, we need to rethink this. Otherwise, you can fill in Type3=Buff, if there are no conflictions.

Dfoplayer (talk)

Sorry for the below. I suck at being concise.

The way it's shown on Seismic Punch is probably misleading compared to what I mean. I did it like that because you can't just go in adding more categories freely with the template. Like putting |NewSection=(words text info rambling) will literally be ignored by the wiki and nothing will change on the page.

To clarify, I agree with the sentiment that Description should pretty much be a short skill description without going too in-depth. Looking at how Seismic Punch is now, that would mean the Description section would just be the mini Description I put under the Modified Game Description (which would be left out entirely. It was just for reference for this discussion). The other two Additional Inputs and Additional Mechanics section could be in the overarching Notes section. I was initially thinking they could be their own sections in the template (ex: |Mechanics=...), but it doesn't matter much where they are as long as that type of information is easily delineated from the rest of the random notes somehow. Pretty much I'm saying the Notes can get messy (considering all the stuff that's in it, like you described Lokd) and important stuff key to how the skill works should be easily discernible.

Ghost 7: Furious Blache is a pretty decent example to use here. Read through the Notes. Now let's just pretend there's some other bullet points in there describing imaginary special inputs like "if you hold left/right, you can determine which direction the whale leaps up from" and "if you push the skill key again before Blanche appears it does more knockback". Because it's too much work to look for another skill with this much going on already in the notes. For the most part, everything not in one of the subsections (Ghost Bonuses + Tips) is describing skill mechanics, how the skill actually works. Bullets 4 and 7 are kinda questionable in that sense. Damage type is something I feel should be a skill attribute (Attributes isn't just numbers btw, considering we're counting Basic Attack Cancellable as an attribute). And Bullet 7 sounds more like a thing that goes into the already nicely defined Tips Subsection since not it's really saying anything regarding how the skill works. It's just providing info on something you can do to maximize efficiency if you were playing around and realized this detail. Now if the 2 command bullets I mentioned were randomly put in that list, I think it'd be weird to have to read through a bunch of additional info before fining the part that say "Hey btw, you can press this button during the skill to control how it works. Back to this thing about sacrificing ghosts...".

I don't think adding these categories would make other skill pages look less complete. If the sections aren't there, I'd just assume that there's nothing special about the skill in those regards. Or we could just always include the sections and say "None" or something, but that's a waste of space imo.

Regarding the Blood Sword vs. Thrust thing, they would both have the Additional Inputs section. The in game descriptions can be kinda lackluster at times so we have to use our better judgment. I swear, the description they give for Needle Spin is something like "Throws a needle and inflicts damage" (can't log onto the game now to check). Which is so off. And then they give an essay for Needle Throw itself that doesn't really even mention throwing needles.

@Dfoplayer: Wave Manifestation Brand appears to be both. It bothers me a bit that there's apparently there's no super category of just "Togglable moves", but instead it's per class (Demon Slayer Toggleable Moves, Soul Bender Toggleable moves, etc.).

As a side note, looking at Ghost 7, I feel like it's a good idea to move the Attributes section to be right above the Skill Growth section. It's usually not a problem, but if the Notes section gets big enough, I don't see why I'd have to scroll up past a wall of text to find information like SP cost and cooldowns that technically could be in the tables, but we aren't putting them because they're static. Spirit Summon: Spirit King Echeverria and Astral Storm for more examples.

SirKerfluffles (talk)

Ah. Okay. My solution would be |Toggable=y and |Buff=y. But, knowing certain people, they might agree with you on making a Template:Togglable, {{Toggable}, which automatically puts the skill into Category:Toggable Skill.

Dfoplayer (talk)