Estimated Skill Growth Table

Hey Dfoplayer. Due to table visibility issues, Bah Wikier and I have been discussing on his talk page about changing the skill growth table format on the SkillPage to a SkillAttribute List of expressions.

Considering User:Everspace's suggestion about omitting non-changing information in tables and the fact that we are now using 'non-changing' mathematical expressions, it may be more beneficial to use a list format.

If it's okay with you, we will be issuing this as the new makeshift standard for the skill growth section.

Altair (talk)

If you are suggesting to put the new list

*{{SkillAttribute|Level|n}}
*{{SkillAttribute|Lv Req|80+2(n-1)}}

in |SkillGrowth= section, then I'm fine with it.

Dfoplayer (talk)

Hey Dfoplayer. I just had an idea.

Out of curiosity, do we have a loop extension installed and would it be possible to construct a skill table from a #while loop extension?

Here's an example I had in mind using the skill:  Quick Punto

{{#vardefine:maxlv | 50 }}
{|{{SkillTableHeader}}
!Level
!Lv Req
!MP
!Melee Atk.
!Lance Tip Atk.
|-
{{#vardefine:i| 1 }}{{#while:
| {{#ifexpr: {{#var:i}} <= {{#var:maxlv}} | true }}
| <nowiki />

|-
| <!--Level--> {{#var:i}}
| <!--Lv Req--> {{#expr: 1+2*({{#var:i}}-1)}}
| <!--MP--> {{#expr: 6+0.568*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}
| <!--Melee Atk.--> {{#expr: 781+79.273*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}% + {{AbsoluteDamage| {{#expr: 1.95+0.198*({{#var:i}}-1) }} | 1 }}
| <!--Lance Tip Atk.--> {{#expr: 1027+104.273*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}% + {{AbsoluteDamage| {{#expr: 2.57+0.261*({{#var:i}}-1) }} | 1 }}

{{#vardefine:i| {{#expr: {{#var:i}} + 1 }} }} <!--Incrementation-->
}}
|}

Ideally, this would create a table and output 50 rows for the skill. I'm not that good at MediaWiki coding, but would this type of implementation be possible?

Altair (talk)

I looked into this weeks ago when you asked me the first time, atleast trying to find some way for mediawiki to calculate mathematical formulas. We do not have loops installed. I asked the site owner sometime ago because of your timeline and she replied we need to see if Extension:arrays can be substituted. Shown below, the while loop does not work

{{#while:

| true
| 

• 0

}}

However, I did not know we had variables installed, so combining arrays and variables should definitely looked into. It could solve some more problems!

I'll try to do some work on the weekend...

Dfoplayer (talk)

{{#arraydefine:maxrow|1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30}}<!--Create an array named "maxrow" and fill it with 30 values-->
{|{{SkillTableHeader}}
!Level
!Lv Req
!MP
!Melee Atk.
!Lance Tip Atk.
{{#arrayprint:maxrow||@@@@|<!--Each item in array maxrow is now @@@@-->
{{#vardefine:i|@@@@}}<!-- Move item to an actual variable we can use -->
{{!}}- {{#ifexpr: {{#var:i}} = 30 | {{MaxSkillRow}} }}
{{!}} <!--Level--> {{#var:i}}
{{!}} <!--Lv Req--> {{#expr: 1+2*({{#var:i}}-1)}}
{{!}} <!--MP--> {{#expr: 6+0.568*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}
{{!}} <!--Melee Atk.--> {{#expr: 781+79.273*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}% + {{AbsoluteDamage| {{#expr: 1.95+0.198*({{#var:i}}-1) }} | 1 }}
{{!}} <!--Lance Tip Atk.--> {{#expr: 1027+104.273*({{#var:i}}-1) round 0}}% + {{AbsoluteDamage| {{#expr: 2.57+0.261*({{#var:i}}-1) }} | 1 }}
{{!}}-
}}

The main point to "simulate a loop" is to create an array with integers. Then when you call #arrayprint, it will loop through the whole array and move each item to a specified symbol, which I called "@@@@". To make your code work, I assigned "@@@@" to var 'i' and the formula you had displays.

Be sure to change the if check on MaxSkillRow.

We will lose some stuff, like rowspan="10" for common columns. But we can put that outside in the attributes section, or hard code the column in the loop.

Now that you brought Extension:Variables to my attention, i think I can fix the semantic errors in NPC and dungeon info boxes. Thanks!

Quick Punto Skill table

Level	Lv Req	MP	Melee Atk.	Lance Tip Atk.
1	1	6	781% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 1.95 max-width:200px 100	1027% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.57 max-width:200px 100
2	3	7	860% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.15 max-width:200px 100	1131% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.83 max-width:200px 100
3	5	7	940% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.35 max-width:200px 100	1236% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.09 max-width:200px 100
4	7	8	1019% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.54 max-width:200px 100	1340% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.35 max-width:200px 100
5	9	8	1098% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.74 max-width:200px 100	1444% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.61 max-width:200px 100
6	11	9	1177% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 2.94 max-width:200px 100	1548% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.88 max-width:200px 100
7	13	9	1257% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.14 max-width:200px 100	1653% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.14 max-width:200px 100
8	15	10	1336% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.34 max-width:200px 100	1757% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.4 max-width:200px 100
9	17	11	1415% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.53 max-width:200px 100	1861% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.66 max-width:200px 100
10	19	11	1494% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.73 max-width:200px 100	1965% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.92 max-width:200px 100
11	21	12	1574% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 3.93 max-width:200px 100	2070% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.18 max-width:200px 100
12	23	12	1653% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.13 max-width:200px 100	2174% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.44 max-width:200px 100
13	25	13	1732% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.33 max-width:200px 100	2278% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.7 max-width:200px 100
14	27	13	1812% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.52 max-width:200px 100	2383% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.96 max-width:200px 100
15	29	14	1891% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.72 max-width:200px 100	2487% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.22 max-width:200px 100
16	31	15	1970% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 4.92 max-width:200px 100	2591% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.49 max-width:200px 100
17	33	15	2049% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.12 max-width:200px 100	2695% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.75 max-width:200px 100
18	35	16	2129% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.32 max-width:200px 100	2800% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.01 max-width:200px 100
19	37	16	2208% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.51 max-width:200px 100	2904% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.27 max-width:200px 100
20	39	17	2287% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.71 max-width:200px 100	3008% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.53 max-width:200px 100
21	41	17	2366% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 5.91 max-width:200px 100	3112% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.79 max-width:200px 100
22	43	18	2446% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.11 max-width:200px 100	3217% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 8.05 max-width:200px 100
23	45	18	2525% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.31 max-width:200px 100	3321% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 8.31 max-width:200px 100
24	47	19	2604% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.5 max-width:200px 100	3425% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 8.57 max-width:200px 100
25	49	20	2684% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.7 max-width:200px 100	3530% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 8.83 max-width:200px 100
26	51	20	2763% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 6.9 max-width:200px 100	3634% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 9.1 max-width:200px 100
27	53	21	2842% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.1 max-width:200px 100	3738% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 9.36 max-width:200px 100
28	55	21	2921% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.3 max-width:200px 100	3842% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 9.62 max-width:200px 100
29	57	22	3001% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.49 max-width:200px 100	3947% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 9.88 max-width:200px 100
30	59	22	3080% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 7.69 max-width:200px 100	4051% + Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips 10.14 max-width:200px 100

Dfoplayer (talk)

I didn't know about the #arrayprint option. I suppose it's a lot safer than having to worry about the consequences of an infinite loop.

I'll do some experimentation on skills like  Core Shield and  Blade Dance to test if I can hard code some of the columns into the table.

Altair (talk)

I disregarded the if check on your user page for coding rowspans, cause new editors might have a hard time reading the wikicode. But if it's working for you, the table does look much better IMO.

Dfoplayer (talk)

The tables themselves never bothered me in the first place. To be honest, I actually preferred the tables. The issue was that it was taking too long to manually update each value for every page.

Anyway, for consistency reasons, should we extend the table only to its Level cap value, the Master Level value, or the Max Level value?

Altair (talk)

"for consistency reasons." I believe we should stop at level cap of character. I haven't played DFO in sometime so I don't know what "master level" is.

Assume for a second that max character level is 70. In Seismic Crash look at Female PVE skill table. We have a row lv29, but when you can only achieve lv28. Is this data collected by a TP skill that raises skill levels, or maybe an equipment set bonus? Trying to record all the possibilities of going over level cap character could take sometime. (as i think my summoner can increase some skills by +3)

I think people would be okay with the skill table stopping at level cap, as anything above that should be considered a bonus...

Dfoplayer (talk)

Alright, sounds good. I'll get right to updating the pages as soon as I finish a reference guide for the new skill table format. You can view it here on my User page. Right now, I'm working on special cases that involve #ifexpr: statements or uses of rowspan or colspan for users who are interested in coding or table formatting.

Anyway, the terms "Master Level" and "Max Level" are relatively new.

• Master Level refers to a soft cap on skill levels. It controls the maximum amount of levels that can be obtained while adding points through the Skill Tree Window. Additional skill points can be added via items or effects, but cannot exceed the Max Level.
• Max Level refers to a hard cap on skill levels.

Altair (talk)

Oh I see. Lets go with "Master Level" then.

You have a very in depth reference guide on your generic formatting section.

Dfoplayer (talk)

Okay, I just re-updated the page  Flash. How does it look?

Altair (talk)

Looks pretty small. I think just one small works. Why are we displaying up to lv50? Can we even reach that high?

Dfoplayer (talk)

Altair (talk)

And here i thought "Master Level refers to a soft cap on skill levels." mean max level on skill tree according to character level. I think I prefer my original answer where our skill tree reflect max character level. Thanks to formulas, we can increase the row size easily should neople increase the level limit.

How do we know master level? Is there data mining involved? To get to lv50, you would need a character around lv127 with set bonuses and buff.

Dfoplayer (talk)

"Master Level" and "Max Level" are both provided in game in the Option Description. Here's an image of the skill: Upward Slash.

For buff skills in particular, like  Divine Invocation or  Valor Blessing, most players strive toward reaching the "Max Level" of the skill. Perhaps we should make a special exception for the main buff skills. These skills are listed here: Buff_Enhancement.

Altair (talk)

I suppose if there are ways to go over master level, then we should probably post max level. This will help players if they need to pick one or two certain skills and buff those first.

Dfoplayer (talk)

Let's just to re-confirm upon what we just discussed:

• Instead of outputting the 50/60 skill levels as shown in Flash, let's compromise. Basic class skills tables will extend only to five levels past the "Level Cap". To minimize work for the Level 95 cap coming Spring next year and to take in account of skill level bonuses from items/buffs, I will adjust the Arrays to show five additional levels past the "Level Cap." Is that okay with you?
• All primary Buff Enhancement and Passive skills tables will extend to "Max Level". Due to the overwhelming desirability of these skills by players in-game, Apocalypse and Crux of Victoria, will also be included in this list.
• Markers using the MaxSkillRow template will highlight the rows of the Level Cap, Master Level and Max Level if reached on the table.

Starting tomorrow, I will update The Great Skill Metastasis Project page and post a section to include a Current Status section similar to that of the Item Database Project.

At the moment, I have 43 out of the 59 advanced sub-classes and all 14 base classes available in-game. If all goes well, I should be able to update at least one whole set of sub-class skills within one or two days. Hopefully, we should have 57 out of the 73 class pages updated within two or three months from now. That being said, I will supervise and update any of these pages if they are changed in any future balance patches.

Altair (talk)

• I was thinking of just extending all skills 5 past level cap, so I agree with this

• Since you know the game more than me, if you think buff skills should be longer than regular skills, alright.

• Agree.

• Skill Metastasis Project section. Agree.

• You play too much. I can barely keep track of three characters back in the day. If you want to handle any skill formula updates, sure.

Dfoplayer (talk)