User talk:SirKerfluffles

Adding png image links

We have a cool template that auto generates links for skill icons. That way, when Neople adds more skills, we do not have to change the skill table. For example,

{{ClassSkills|Male Spitfire}}
{{ClassSkills|General}}

Of course, it requires that all skills must use SkillPage template. Apparently, M. Spitfire has some extra skills so, I'm not entirely sure what do to about that. As for the armor mastery, you can put that in the JobDesc3, such as in Summoner.--Dfoplayer (talk) 12:09, 30 June 2015 (PDT)

Ok then, that sounds great. So if the template is used, does that mean the wiki automatically loads the png files as well? Because if so then I can just skip the ones I haven't gotten to yet and maybe go straight to that. (Sorry for the late reply. I got super busy moving and didn't get much a chance to get on. I'm just gonna assume if no reply you didn't get this and just experiment later. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 23:44, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

Well, the {{ClassSkills and {{IconLink just appends .png after the Skill name, like Giant Weapon Launcher becomes File:Giant Weapon Launcher.png. So, if you load the {{ClassSkills on to the classes pages, you will see red links and easily find the missing icons. Of course, someone still has to put {{Delete on to the gif/jpg. --Dfoplayer (talk) 07:36, 6 July 2015 (PDT)

Ah, yeah it makes sense that the wiki itself would still need the files to reference. Would have been pretty fancy though if the thing was ripping them from the game files. If I have some time I'll start working on that again tonight or tomorrow. I really want to get it done. I hate having projects hanging suspended in time like this. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 07:50, 6 July 2015 (PDT)

Awakening Skills

Awakening Skills are categorized in <Subclass> Awakening Skills and <Subclass> 2nd Awakening Skills. If need to be, I can add them to the Metastasis page so you can confirm they are in the right place. --Dfoplayer (talk) 19:35, 7 July 2015 (PDT)

Hmm, well it's up to you. Pretty much my plan was to try and finish up the image uploads of classes that are out (probably skipping F. Slayer for now) and head onto looking into the categorization so the auto load formats can be inserted into the class pages. It'll probably become more clear once I actually look at how the template works, but overall it would probably be nice to have the awakening skills on the metastasis page since the page now shows the difference between the Template/non template pages. It'd make it easier to keep track of what's needs to be done / show progress of the project to anyone who's interested.

Since this is related, how are the skills on the Metastasis page generated? I finally decided to go in on that M. Fighter section which I still kinda don't wanna touch, but it's just about the only section left to do. The naming schemes are looking super messy in there, with a lot of variations on how to reference the male version of the skill (like (M) at the start, but also at the end, and sometimes with spaces or none in between the (M) and the skill name...or also M. [Skill Name] or [Skill Name] (Male)...and for Brawlers it even goes [Skill Name] (Male Brawler). Some standardization would be nice. It'd make things easier if there was a clear way to sort out which skills should be where, because some skills in there are referenced several times or are loaded where they shouldn't be (like Knee Kick being in the grappler section when it's just a general M. Fighter skill). Additionally the female versions of the skills that share the same names are sometimes loaded as well as separate things, but sometimes they just straight up show a duplicate of the female version (with the image and page link). I might also figure all this out when I start categorizing, but some tips/guide couldn't hurt.--SirKerfluffles (talk) 20:32, 7 July 2015 (PDT)

According to Everspace we should probably use [Skill Name] (Male/Female) as the standard. As I explained here, DPL extension looks up categories to auto generate the list for skills. As long as Template:SkillPage correctly auto-categorizes, we should be fine on skill categories. Unfortunately, I do not know any auto categorize extension that can categorize those .png images. --Dfoplayer (talk) 22:40, 7 July 2015 (PDT)

Do you mind removing unused categories?

Hey, if you're going to use the new skill pages, would you mind removing any unused categories? Arrol (talk) 19:09, 7 August 2015 (PDT)

You mean like "Class2" and "Type3" and those ones? It's an option, sure. Is there a reason? --SirKerfluffles (talk) 19:16, 7 August 2015 (PDT)

Well, my mind is blown that you don't need to have the things like |Video2 to have the video tabs showing. Trade off of making the page text cleaner, but also slightly more difficult for people to just stuff in like the scenario I have in my head when this is all done. And just FYI, if it's bothering you that I tend to leave blank atrributes from the skill page template in, I'm doing it with the intention of making it easier to get more people to come in an just update info. Ask for elaboration if it's an issue and we can talk it out. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 20:13, 7 August 2015 (PDT)

So I've tried it out for a few, and I'm not really liking deleting the stuff. There's a lot of stuff I see becoming messy in the future when they're deleted. Like for one, I just keep thinking that if suddenly there was a skill change or something (say suddenly skills moved around and require prerequisite skills though they didn't before), it'd be more difficult to just make the change since you'd probably have to go pull up the skill template page again (or another page you KNOW has a prereq) to remember the syntax. Or, for someone who hasn't edited the pages before, maybe get confused and have to start asking around for info that should have been pretty obvious. Also, say someone adds a video2, and the naming tab. Since the attributes apparently don't have to be in order, they could end up adding the video at the bottom of the code part (below the skill table) or something. And in this case it'd be harder to find and change stuff since you'd have to go around searching for a particular attribute on every page. Overall I see deleting the blank attributes leading to huge work deterrents. So unless you can explain why it's beneficial to delete them, I'm just gonna leave them in. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 09:31, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

Doesn't the page for the template itself have a tutorial for new users? Arrol (talk) 10:58, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

That does raise a decent point. Brief explanation of my viewpoint = I ultimately see people being able to just join up and fill in data regardless of how much wiki experience they have or how much they want to contribute, because updating all skill info is such a big task. (I'm thinking with a bias of jumping right into stuff since I inherently don't have much patience for sitting and reading the rules myself). So therefore it'd be easy if they could just click edit and fill in the blanks w/o worrying about the formatting and whatnot. Though, what could happen is -> recruit people, direct them to some instructions on what to do, and then let them loose. And have some overseer for the changes. Or have people give information to a designated info updater for the class. Then in the future, I guess people editing would probably more likely have wiki experience. I mean, I don't necessarily agree, but if you think that's how Metastatsis is gonna go down then I'd be fine with it. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 14:49, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

UPDATE: How's it sound to you if we just say the person who makes the skill page up to date can delete the unused attributes when they're done? Considering almost none of the pages I've seen so far have arena info, almost everything is gonna need at least one more update anyway. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 18:18, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

Absolute Damage numbers change.

Hello!

In case you haven't noticed, the tooltips for skills that contain flat damage numbers like  Explosive Hook have their numbers change if you switch weapons. Rather than have people fighting over numbers, I would like to people to start using Template:AbsoluteDamage that does the math for you. You can see an example when I used it for the File:Sticky Ball.png Sticky Ball skill.

It can be made like so when editing a page:

{{AbsoluteDamage|Tooltip=15610|IndependantAttack=1173}}

Damage Ratio:

Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips

13.31

max-width:200px 100

{{AbsoluteDamage|15610|1173}}

Damage Ratio:

Absolute Damage Ratio, it is multiplied by your Independent Attack Power before being shown in the game tooltips

13.31

max-width:200px 100

Thank you for your contributions!

-- Everspace (talk) 00:25, 29 August 2015 (PDT)

Ok, I'll keep that in mind on the next big step I'll be working on soon (skill info for Male Brawler). Thanks for the reminder. For now, I honestly don't know how damage works at all in this game yet, but hopefully will in the coming weeks. EXTRA LONG WINDEDNESS THAT IS UNNECESSARY TO READ: I planned to look it up and find out by working on that info update initially...but then I saw the Metastasis project as a whole as appalling to look at for a wiki so I've been putting it if off for the past few months to do all the minor work I figured people didn't want to do. I also don't have the means of checking the damage info in many sections since my only decently leveled characters right now are M. Brawler (85), Dark Knight (74), and Sword Master (71) (everyone else is drifting in random numbers <= 50). I'll probably the absolute damage thing into consideration when choosing who to level up next too if some section is still unfinished like 1/3 - 1/2 a year from now. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 10:01, 29 August 2015 (PDT)

Basic jist is that there are 3 types of numbers:

• Percent Damage. Shows a % in the tooltip.
• Absolute Damage, also known as flat or fixed damage. It shows a plain number in the tool-tip but updates live as your move your equipment around (check the numbers on Needle Spin after unequipping your weapon for example). This functionality is rather new in terms of the English version's history so I am trying really hard to nip it in the bud.
• Status Damage. This doesn't change if you unequip your weapon.

I'm curious what you mean by "Metastasis project as a whole as appalling to look at for a wiki". Like a shitton of work? Yea. The time between when Nexon dropped and we got it back there were huge changes in system things and all the minor maintenance that could have been done to keep up now has to be done all at once.

Don't worry about cleaning up a class that isn't "yours". This is why Elementalist and Avenger are so ahead compared to other classes :P . However if you see something using a table that doesn't look like it's using Template:SkillTableHeader, check the history and see if you need to remove rows to be filled in again.

After skills are done, I'm looking at items next! -- Everspace (talk) 15:15, 30 August 2015 (PDT)

Alright, well there's not many skills left to format convert (in comparison to how many there are total) but I can try and find the "absolute" values and make them -> "?". I glanced at a damage formula guide and it looked more complicated than that, but I'll see in a week or so. Having a guideline helps so thanks.

In regards to the quote, when I first saw the Metastasis project page, my brain went something like the following. First, read the page and briefly scroll down it, producing the interpretation "Absolutely everything here is outdated and cannot be trusted." Second, take the viewpoint of a potentially 100% new player to DFO who might not know this game existed in the past. Third, think "Well this game is looks like garbage cuz nobody cares enough to manage the basic stuff. I have low hopes for the community in that case. Maybe I'll go play something else". Fourth, shiver in disgust at the thought of these people existing. Fifth, look over everything and analyzed what needed to be done. Sixth, think "Oh goddammit there's a bunch of bitch work here. Ain't nobody wanna do that shit. Better get started." And my update history tells the rest. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:34, 30 August 2015 (PDT)

First, read the page and briefly scroll down it, producing the interpretation "Absolutely everything here is outdated and cannot be trusted."

This is absolutely true. I was hoping to gate skills that were untested or unverified behind through the template. By moving them over without vetting them, we're back at "Absolutely everything here is outdated and cannot be trusted" again. Literally everything changed in DFO during it's hiatus. I appreciate the "bitch work", but it was far more than bitch work. It was work for people who could provide the information to update it. Crushing Fist mentions skill stealing which is not available AFAIK. Prelim looks from other wikis say that the numbers and even level acquisition and prerequisites are wrong as well for many things that were converted.

I would rather have no information than wrong information. -- Everspace (talk) 19:01, 30 August 2015 (PDT)

Hopefully the

{{Missing Info}}

tag is keeping track of that. I get what you mean, it's not as clear what's update/not updated just from looking at the Metastasis page anymore. I brought this up with Dfoplayer before inbetween my PNG uploads and format conversion stages, but I'm not sure where the conversation is right now (can probably find it searching dfoplayer's talk page history). As a short explanation, I'm trying to take care of all the superfluous work that isn't actually info related and bring it to the point where only info needs to be done. After that if there's a way to separate the page into skills that have the Missing Info tag or not I think that's what you'd want (because I haven't touched anything that was already updated fully before I started and I've just been almost copy/pasting info from unformatted pages). Right now there's just the page.

Edit: Additionally, not to demean the work or anything. I call what I've worked on bitch work because it's long and tedious (since I did it that way) and actually relatively unrelated to the main info part, which we should be coming up upon soon. Just from my perspective, I think the best way to do this project would be to have a group of people and divide up the work into sections. Because while uploading the PNGs, it just seemed like nothing was getting done considering how sparsely I saw other updates. And having the wiki remain in that unupdated state for that long seemed demoralizing, again like people didn't care enough about the game. So partially for the illusion of having a lot of people, and partially because I'm insane, I took the "we have a bunch of workers and each person has their own job" approach that would be more reasonably possible with more people. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 19:47, 30 August 2015 (PDT)